Oops

[frayadjacent]

I tried to argue to my coworkers at lunch today that one need not invoke a genetic cause of "homosexuality" (their word) in order for it to be morally OK. It's also morally fine if it is a choice! I'm pretty sure they think I'm a homophobe now.

(I suppose this would have been as good a time as any to come out at work, but given that I'm still somewhat dazed at having participated in a multi-minute conversation with my coworkers at all, it's not surprising I didn't.)

Comments

[sanguinity]

Yeah, in my experience, "Your conclusions correct but your reasons are wrong," are easily misunderstood, and arguments about the necessity or sufficiency of a premise (or lack thereof) are even worse. In a lot of cases, people get confused about what argument you're making, so assume that you're attacking the conclusion in some roundabout, easily-deniable way. And then when you deny it, they assume they just got their confirmation of your motives. :-/

For myself, I dislike the 'born that way' argument in part because it's not so great at supporting bi people: we do have, to some extent, the liberty to choose a societally approved partner and still have a shot at happiness.

Mostly, though, all the "they didn't have a choice" arguments suck, no matter who you're making them about. There is always the implication that who-all shouldn't be that way, and there is always the implication that 'we' are in a superior position, magnanimously overlooking some deep flaw in who-all. Not to mention that it encourages "well, you didn't try hard enough" arguments (which are prevalent where disability is concerned, f'rex).

FWIW, I'm not sure that we-the-queer-community were the originators of the "born that way" argument: when I was younger, I got the "but what causes it??" question a lot, usually from people who were trying to work out in their heads what their own ethical stance was. Faced with that, there was a strong temptation to say, "Well, I don't know what causes it, but it's not a choice," because that was so obviously the answer that would have the strongest and quickest effect on person-in-front-of-you.

[frayadjacent]

As usual you say very smart and sensible things. And I totally agree about the superiority/magnanimity thing. It was very much there and I've seen it a lot before too. (Though I kinda doubt I was the only queer person in the conversation; I was definitely getting a vibe from one person in particular that this convo was *personal*.)

there was a strong temptation to say, "Well, I don't know what causes it, but it's not a choice," because that was so obviously the answer that would have the strongest and quickest effect on person-in-front-of-you.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense!

Part of the difficulty I had expressing myself was also that I was trying to acknowledge that plenty of people do feel that they were "born this way" -- and that that's fine, I don't get to decide who they are, they do. But that's a different thing from the moral argument, or the endless fascination with "what causes it?"