women courting

[frayadjacent]

Ever since last year when I read Gail Simone's Wonder Woman run, where Diana tries (and fails) to court a man, I've been craving more stories where a woman really actively pursues a romance (with any gender person). I think this is the root of why I so often fail at shipping: writers are so rarely interested in showing me that a lady character is even interested in the other person, much less actively courting them.

What I'd really love to see is Lady Character pursing the object of her affection awkwardly -- with inappropriate grand gestures, for example. (But not Awkwardly Not Pursuing said object a la early season Willow and Xander, I've got plenty of examples of that.) And I'd love examples where she succeeds and examples where she doesn't.

Where do I find this? I had secretly hoped The Mindy Project would do it, but alas it didn't, not really. I get it occasionally from books (Rowan courted Fletcher in The Outskirters Secret, for example).

Comments

[silverr]

I read a bit of the webcomic Sunstone a few years ago and it was the first thing that sprang to mind when I read your post. ~ I recall that at least the beginning of the relationship was on the sweetly awkward side.

I also wonder if any of the Sarah Waters books might satisfy? (I've got Fingersmith on my kindle but not yet read).

The relationship of Exoristos (lesbian Amazon) and Sir Ystin (transgender man) in Demon Knights was complex and awkward and lovely (and there's been some good fic written about it).

(I do think, hands down, my favorite "female courts male and wins him" is probably Jadzia Dax and Worf from DS9 (but them I adore all things Dax. *g*)... and though she's not really awkward, courting a Klingon male does require fairly grand gestures.

[frayadjacent]

Oooh, thanks for all these recs! And I've still never gotten around to watching DS9 but this might be exactly the push I need. From what I've heard of Jadzia Dax and what I know of Worf that sounds really good.

[silverr]

The Dax/Worf romance doesn't happen until... Season 6? I think? but imo Dax is a marvelous character (and overall DS9 is just so so good).

(And if you do watch it and want someone to squee with -- I am so here. I have been a Trek fan since the original series aired, and DS9 is far and away my favorite. ~ The pilot is a bit slow-moving to some, but it does get the job done.)

[silverr]

I also poked a bit at TV Tropes.

As expected, most of the "woman pursuing" tropes are skewed negative; the most positive one I found was Violently Protective Girlfriend.

(After further thought, I also think it's possible that this situation might be more prevalent when the pursuer is wealthy? -- and here I am thinking that Veronica Palmer from Better Off Ted is a good candidate acting this way.)

(And all this discussion is making me want to fic for this, because positive protrayals of Grand Gesture Wooing do seem to be sadly lacking.

[frayadjacent]

Yeah, I was thinking about the negative "woman pursuing" tropes, and how failed wooing could easily be written as "see she was too forward and unladylike, and she chased him away". At best, apparently. :(

You should totally fic it!

[silverr]

Oddly enough, though I can think of a number of RL m/f examples where the woman non-scarily yet boldly and successfully wooed a man, most of the fic I can think to write is f/f. (I suppose that means I need additional fandoms at some point. *g*)

[frayadjacent]

hahaha, me as well. Including well over half of my relationships with men. *eyeroll*

f/f fic is awesomesauce tho.

[silverr]

As I was falling asleep yesterday another possible came to mind: The Legend of Bold Riley

[frayadjacent]

ooh, thank you, this looks great!

[endeni]

/And I've still never gotten around to watching DS9 but this might be exactly the push I need./ - OMG, DS9 is the best! *g*

[alwaystheocean]

Just going to chime in with enthusiastic recs for Sarah Waters (Fingersmith, Tipping the Velvet, The Paying Guests would all work, I think) and Deep Space Nine! (More below if I think of them.)

[frayadjacent]

Thanks!

[endeni]

Have you raed A Courtship by nev_longbottom? (Also in podfic form by sisi_rambles. Summary: Loki thinks Sif is going to kill him. Sif thinks Loki understands what she's doing. Thor doesn't get it.
Which is basically Sif courts Loki by slaying beasts for him and defeating his enemies. Plkus, I love the gender role reversal so much! (With Loki practicing magic and not relishing physical fights like a proper Asgardian should and Sif embodying every inch that -usually masculine- warrior role. Sooo interesting.)
(And no, it does not require great prior canon knowledge... *g*)

[frayadjacent]

huh, Lady Courting by Beast Slaying definitely sounds promising. I don't know Marvel characters much at all, but I might check that out! Thanks for the rec. :D

[goodbyebird]

There's no awkward lady courting in Lost Girl, but Bo (and also Kenzi! eventually!) are ladies that know what they want and pursue it. The first season is super good with Bo and sexuality in general :D

Also a lady character jumps a dude character in Legend of the Seeker, but less courting, more Hi Imma Jump Your Bones Now ;)

hat no there is no theme at all with my suggestions they are random suggestions and in no way relates to anything in particular *ahem* WATCH THESE SHOWSSS

If you take away "awkward", there's Alice on Luther tho.

[calvinahobbes]

Take away "awkward" and substitute "disturbing", I think you mean? Alice is amazing, but she is quite a different thing!

[goodbyebird]

Yup, but she certainly is pursuing John ;D

[frayadjacent]

Hee, from what little I know of Alice and John, it sounds promising, but the show overall sounds like it has too many things I don't want to watch. :(

[frayadjacent]

Heh, I like your agendas. I actually watched the first few episodes of Lost Girl a couple of years ago, but then I stopped and never picked it back up. I should get on that. Ugh I'm so bad at trying new things or even taking the time to watch old faves lately. I need reminders, evidently.

[calvinahobbes]

Someone above mentioned Sarah Waters, but sadly I don't think any of her novels would fit. AFAIR they're all firmly in the POV of the pursued.

It's maybe not surprising how rare that dynamic is? It doesn't quite fit, but Selfie has some of the dynamic you're describing, but beware the show was cut off prematurely and so the ending isn't very satisfying (but I loved it, everyone should watch it, maybe you did already and I don't remember anything!).

Erm, I guess The L Word kind of does it, but I don't recall any seriously protracted will-she-won't-she courting arcs... Also maybe don't watch TLW, it's pretty awful?

[goodbyebird]

SELFIE!! That would actually fit in spurts. And omg, still pissed they canned it.

[frayadjacent]

Ooh, I did watch Selfie, but I don't think I ever mentioned it here! And Eliza's faily pursuits of Henry were definitely one of my favorite things about it. It's such a sweet show, maybe I should rewatch it.

[ghost_lingering]

Miss Piggy?

Other than her ...there is one pairing in Avatar: the Last Airbender that fits, but it's not really explored very much and is only at the edges. Also mostly in the third season. And the inappropriate grand gestures are probably not the ones you're envisioning. And the female character doesn't (outwardly) show much interest in anything, much less the guy she's pursuing. But literal pursuit does play a part of it and he wouldn't try for the relationship himself.

There's a pairing in the later half of Bunheads that has echoes of this, but I don't really like that pairing? That said the fallout at the end almost makes it worth it. (Not sure how far you've seen yet, so I won't name names.)

First season of Nashville, Juliette definitely pursues some men. But ... I wouldn't really recommend Nashville?

I feel like I should be able to name more lesbian pairings with this dynamic! But ... I'm not thinking of many, hmmm. And the ones I can think of are mostly out girl pursues closeted girl and it's less about women wooing and more about coming out.

[frayadjacent]

I'm just under halfway through Bunheads, and should get to the midpoint tomorrow evening, so I look forward to that!

I had similar thoughts re lesbian pairings. I think part of it is that I haven't seen that many lesbian pairings period, apart from indy films from my college years, and the ones that immediately come to mind seem to involve people kinda...falling together, rather than one person wooing the other. Kennedy pursues Willow in BtVS, but the audience is much more in Willow's POV than Kennedy's, so it doesn't really satisfy that itch for me.

[alwaystheocean]

Well, I have no actual ideas for this, but I do now have inspiration to write more Diana courting fic, and some ideas for Steerswoman, so that's exciting, thank you. <3

(I will ponder further.)

OH. WAIT. PERSON OF INTEREST. ROOT COURTS SHAW OH MY GOD IT'S BEAUTIFUL. (Like, in their own sociopathic way.) Like, I know you noped out of POI for legit reasons, and I am in sympathy with those, and agree on the rage, but if you felt moved to pick it up again for the Root and Shaw show, I think it'd be worth your time. (Though word on t'internet is it may be headed for short season 5 and then cancellation after that, so you could just hold off and see how they end the Root/Shaw thing.)

[frayadjacent]

Yeah, at this rate I'll be waiting till POI ends before I do any more watching. I have vague intentions to watch the rest, but there's lots of other things with higher priority. Root/Shaw are awesome, though. I'm pretty sure theirs is the only adversarial ship I ever got into.