Help request -- discussions on vid feedback

[frayadjacent]

I'm putting together a panel for vidukon on vid feedback.  I haven't sorted out what the panel will look like, and I know that at Vividcon there have been multiple panels related to feedback and beta processes.  If anyone knows of posts that have talked about what was covered in those panels, how the panelists structured it, etc, I'd love to see them!  Or if anyone put on or attended one of those panels and wants to tell me about it, that would also be awesome!  Also, general posts about feedback/beta processes would be super useful.

(I have looked at the Fanlore pages for VVCs past, and they include links to some people's post-con write-ups, which have been a helpful start for sure.)

Right now I definitely want to include some space to discuss whether/how we can constructively criticise vids for their content and not just their form, but I don't really see myself filling a full time slot with just that.  In addition to that, I was thinking some other things that might be good to do:

 - a group concrit or beta process as part of the panel (I'd ask for volunteers to submit a vid for this, or do one of my own). 

 - people share experiences with feedback/beta that was helpful and talk about why

 - people talk about how they approach being a beta or other ways of giving feedback

Any other ideas?  I'm in brainstorm mode so I'd love to hear anything that might be relevant.  Even thoughts on feedback, praise, and constructive criticism of things other than vids would be super cool.

Comments

[chaila]

Idk if this is along the lines of what you're thinking, but it might be interesting to discuss how people really give & get feedback now, how we think of each method, etc. Post vid release, feedback can be in some obvious ways: in person at a con, email, post replies or comments, recs. And sometimes this is what people think of as feedback. But now there's "feedback" (is it feedback? Is it the same?) in the form of Tumblr reblogs/likes and TAGS, tweets, links, YouTube views, comments and likes, AO3 hits/kudos. (and sometimes these things aren't even directed at the vidder, i.e. tumblr posts that embed a vid without the vidder's knowledge or without linking to the vidder's post). Some methods require more effort than others, might mean different things in the community or to an individual vidders, seem to have a different purpose (responding to content in depth vs a pat on the back vs sharing the vid with others) etc. I think about some of those methods really differently than other methods, and wonder if others do too? How much does feedback matter to us? How's the perspective different as a vidder and a viewer? How do we choose where & how to give feedback? Do we choose platforms based on the kind of feedback we want to encourage? (I do!) If we aren't thinking very much about how we're doing it, should we be?

Which probably all comes from a general concept of "feedback as fannish currency", for lack of a better way to say it? But I'm sure there are differing but interesting views on that idea. :)

Whoops I have a lot of feelings about feedback!

[frayadjacent]

How much does feedback matter to us? How's the perspective different as a vidder and a viewer? How do we choose where & how to give feedback? Do we choose platforms based on the kind of feedback we want to encourage? (I do!) If we aren't thinking very much about how we're doing it, should we be?

Thanks, this is really useful for thinking about how to frame this!

I'm especially interested in talking about whether/how people might be interested in changing the ways we give feedback, either by developing skills (how do we even talk about vids, some people say the smartest things and I'm like "OOOOHHH YAY VID THIS MADE ME HAPPY") or even just resolving to do it more. I guess I am basing that on the notion of feedback as fannish currency, though also I remember when I first started vidding that feedback was so important to learning -- I needed it more than I do now, but it was much harder to get than it is now. (I think that the vid mentor and vidding workshop that wiscon_vidparty has been hosting is really fantastic for that.)

On the other hand, I know I as a vidder want most of all just for people to watch (and enjoy) my vids, so things like kudos and reblogs are a good form of feedback that are a lot easier on the viewer.

[acridnym]

The feedback & critique section of permetaform's Big List of Vid Meta has some good stuff. Sadly half of the links are dead since it's a pretty old resource. But...half the links aren't, so there's that.

One possible thing to touch on would be feedback for the vidder's sake (betas, comments on the vidder's blog) versus feedback for the viewer's sake (VVC vidshow reviews, recs on one's own blog). What are the differences and where do they overlap?

I'm really curious as to what consensus is on giving feedback for older vids (and if it's a no-no, what's the cut-off time?) since the biggest reason I don't give feedback is I always find the vid too late.

[frayadjacent]

Thank you! This is so helpful and I am going to keep this forever OMG.

Yeah, I really like how you and chaila talk about feedback from the POV of a vidder and from the POV of a viewer. I had been kind of mixing it up in my head and that's a super useful distinction to make.

RE older vids, I guess I figure any public post that is comment-able is fair game? I know I've left feedback on older vids and the vidder was really pleased to know the vid was still being watched/discovered, though there have been other times when the vidder didn't respond to my comment so I don't know how they felt.

There was one time when someone left pretty detailed concrit on one of my first vids about a year and a half after I'd made it, and a lot of their concrit was stuff I'd already figured out and talked about in the vid post itself and comments, so the concrit felt a little awkward? I was like, "yeah, I know..." but I wasn't upset by it or anything. :)

[frayadjacent]

For myself:

hereslucks' feedback tag

gwyn's notes on feedback

thoughts on feedback from the fourth vine

heresluck's writeup on the "giving good beta" panel

Kass writeup on "eats vids and leaves"

par's vvc panel notes including feedback panel

flummery's writeup of vividsection

people who've done beta/feedback panels:

cesperanza
shoshanna
killa has done vividsection