Best practices for subtitiling vids?

[frayadjacent]

I'm doing some subtitles for Wiscon, and I'm wondering if anyone knows of guidelines for subtitling vids; i.e., is it best to start a subtitle a moment (how long of a moment?) before they lyric starts, or right at the same time? What about ways to get the subtitles to flow best with the music, or the vid itself? Is it better to keep a subtitle up a few frames longer than necessary when there are brief pauses in the lyrics so that you don't have a stutter effect (a few frames with no titles between two different lyric lines), or is it better to match the timing of the titles exactly with the lyrics?

Comments

[endeni]

Oh, that's very interesting!
I sometimes create simple .srt subtitle files for my personal watching pleasure for fanvids I like if they have audio tracks in them besides the music, the better to follow what's being said, English not being my native tongue and all. In these cases I always go with trying to match the timing with the dialog best as I can. And about leaving frames with no subtitles, in my case that depends on the dialog obliviously, which can be pretty sparse through the vid so I don't really mind but in general terms I tend to think that in case of doubt the more time a subtitle is on screen, the more time I got to read it. :D
In any case, I have to say I always greatly appreciate lyrics subtitles when available, they save me the time to go look for the song lyrics if I lose some passages. ;)

[frayadjacent]

in general terms I tend to think that in case of doubt the more time a subtitle is on screen, the more time I got to read it.

Yes! Seems like a good principle, and is probably what I should generally adhere to. My only concern would be if there are times when it's more important for the timing of the subtitles to capture the rhythm/timing of the vocals? I think that would be more important for deaf/hard-of-hearing vid watchers than for vid-watchers who can hear that *something* is being sung, but can't make out what it is.

[endeni]

Oh, didn't think of that. Good thought, I can see how you may be conflicted. *nods pensively*

[violace]

Been wondering about this as I'm subtitling for Wiscon as well! I don't know of any real guidelines, but personally I can comprehend the text best when I see it slightly before I hear it, maybe about 400ms. (Kind of like the general advice when cutting vids to the beat!) (ETA: Actually, I just went back to check on some subtitles and 400ms might be a bit too much. I find it difficult to determine the exact moment when the singing starts, but still, a tiny bit before seems right.)
And I try to avoid gaps unless there's more than, say, 1.5 seconds of pause in the lyrics.
Also, for fast sung lyrics it's often a good idea to merge two separate lines so they appear at the same time, I find.

[frayadjacent]

Huh, yeah I'm definitely starting mine much less than half a second (probably closer to a tenth of a second?) before the lyric. But I notice on subtitled films that the titles often show up waaaay before the line is spoken, which actually sometimes annoys me because I want my reading to roughly correspond with hearing the actor's voice, but there are probably good reasons for it? But with less of a delay for music than for a film, obvs.

And I try to avoid gaps unless there's more than, say, 1.5 seconds of pause in the lyrics.
Also, for fast sung lyrics it's often a good idea to merge two separate lines so they appear at the same time, I find.

Huh, I didn't do either of those things -- I probably left gaps if it was more than 0.5-1 second between lyrics, but I'll definitely keep that in mind for the future. I found myself worrying a fair bit about matching the rhythm of the vocals, but that shouldn't be at the expense of readability/ease of use!

(Actually, the lyrics that I found for one fast song had already seemed to merge what were probably separate lines, and I found it worked really well. So yeah that makes sense.)

[rbfvid.livejournal.com]

I prefer to start subtitles about 300 ms before the line is spoken, and let them linger long enough for everyone to read them without the effort (that would be no more than 21 characters per second for the English-speaking audience). Though my experience is only with subs for translated dialogue, I’m not sure how well it applies to music videos.

[rbfvid.livejournal.com]

Here is a good guide for subtitling: http://mediastorm.com/blog/2010/11/23/mediastorms-guide-to-using-subtitles/
Some advices definitely don't apply in your case (like matching line change with on-screen scene change), but others could be still useful.

[frayadjacent]

Thank you! This is very useful.

[frayadjacent]

Yeah, for some fast songs there probably isn't enough time in the lyric to hold to 21 characters per second. But it's still helpful to know these sorts of rules of thumb. Just a matter of thinking about how to adapt them.