Curious

[frayadjacent]

If you're a vidder and you clip, how do you name (and organize?) your clips?

I try to keep my names short and somewhat descriptive, but the descriptions are generic and don't tend to get at why I think the clip might work in my vid. E.g., "TaraWillowHug.mov", but a lot of very different clips with very different uses might fit that description.  I'm wondering if there are alternatives.

(My clips used to have names like "BtVS_S6E01_BargainingI_TaraWillowHug.mov".  Which is somewhat useful since I know that show really well, so that actually gives me a pretty good idea of what clip I'd be using.  But it wouldn't work for most sources, for me, and anyway I mostly end up only seeing the first part of the name in my Finder window.)

(BTW, this is just an example, I'm not vidding BtVS right now.)

Comments

[littleheaven]

I almost always vid straight from DVD source (because Vegas will work with .vob), so the way I do it stems from how I rip the DVD, which is by chapter, so as not to have huge files to import. If I'm working with, say, Angel, I'll review the source in episode order, and make notes in a book. I use the episode title as the heading, list the chapter numbers beneath it, and beside each chapter number I list the usable scenes within it, just writing a quick description, like "Angel swirls coat in alley" which is enough to jog my memory as to what the visual is. Since Angel has short chapters, this means I can just import the chapter, and easily find the clip in question just by scrubbing through the 3-5 minutes of footage in it. For longer chapters I might timecode each note. I name the file by ep name and chapter number (i.e. CityOf_01), so that it matches my notes. When I rip the DVD, I just type the ep title in the "save as" box, set it to rip by chapter and it names and numbers them all for me :o)

For source that doesn't have chapters I just use timecodes. I don't clip out each actual scene individually, because I either do that in the trimmer window or just drag the whole file onto the timeline at the end of the song and cut out the bits I want, then drag along to the relevant spot in the song. I've always done it this way, for 10 years now. It's probably horribly inefficient but it works for me. I often find that scrubbing through small amounts of footage to locate the scene in my notes leads me to find other little bits that I missed when I was making my notes, and I grab them and use them along the way.

[frayadjacent]

I'm hoping to vid directly from .vobs in the future (I've just started with Premiere Pro, and I think it will work?!), so this is super useful! Thanks. :D

[littleheaven]

You're on a Mac, right? I used Premiere Pro to make Dance Across The Floor, and I had to convert to .dv from .vob. In that instance, I ripped the .vob, then located the clip using my notes and converted that particular scene to .dv using Mpeg Streamclip. I've read that some people have managed to get it to work with .vob but others (and me) found it crashes the programme. This is one of the reasons I still vid on PC, even though I have this honking great Mac Pro with dual quad-cores and loads of RAM - Vegas cuts out the whole clip conversion process and makes life much easier. I have a Windows laptop just to run it.

[frayadjacent]

yeah, I also read that premiere is unstable with .vobs, but I did find something somewhere on the internets indicating that you can get it to work with some kind of settings change...clearly I don't remember what it was, but if/when I get to that I'll look into it more and post if I learn something useful.

[grammarwoman]

What version of Vegas are you using? Mine is 9, and if it takes VOB files, I should kick myself for making things take so effing long.

[littleheaven]

I'm on MovieStudio12HD at the moment, but I've used 6 and 9-11 as well, and they all take .vob. When you "import media" and use that dialogue box to browse to the folder where your media files are stored, they don't show up, but you just change the "file type" from the drop-down menu from "all media files" to "all files" and presto, there they are, and then you can import them. I'm not sure they've ever been officially supported but they've always worked. Although it should be noted .vob is not truly lossless and some people have run into problems because of that. I've had very few issues over about 20 vids, though.

This is one of the main reasons, as a Mac girl, that I keep a PC just to run Vegas. That and the handy "match project settings to media settings" tool. Saves SO much mucking around!

[grammarwoman]

DUDE. I can't wait to try this - thank you!

[littleheaven]

Happy to have helped!

[sanguinity]

I name my clips things like "2x01 Cameron mirror staples." Episode number (because often I need to go back to the ep to find something just a little different or the interstitial cut-aways or wev), the character(s) in the clip, whatever the thematic idea was that I was clipping it for, plus some significant-to-me detail that distinguishes that clip in particular from the other Cameron mirror clips. ("Staples" is obvious enough; sometimes it's just an expression/emotion/movement-that-I-liked.)

Additionally, I keep a clip-source file, in which I put down time codes of scenes-that-may-be-relevant, and if I end up clipping from the scene after all, the time codes for the clips themselves. Both to aid in search for a replacement clip, if nothing I have quite suits, and to jog my memory that yes, there *were* other possibly-relevant scenes in that ep. (It's a separate clip-source file for each vid, but I will go have a look at the file from another vid sometimes, to remind myself of what I saw when I was looking at an ep through that-other-vid's lens.)

I also, depending on the vid, tend to sort my clips into thematic subfolders. So the Cameron mirror clip above was part of the "mirrors make-up bodymods" subfolder. Which isn't perfect organization, because some clips beg to be part of two or more subfolders, and I'll get frustrated when it turns out I put the clip in the other folder, but the thematic folders helps me greatly when I'm trying to see what I've got that might help me with a certain kind of job.

But honestly, I haven't made that many vids yet, and the system is still evolving.

[frayadjacent]

Heh, I soon as I saw "Cameron Mirror staples" I knew what you meant, so sometimes simple names can really work!

I love the idea of folders and sub-folders, but the same issue of clips fitting in multiple folders is an issue, like you say. And I'm trying to clip for multiple vids -- I'm starting a vid that will use clips from a vid I just finished, and I'm adding a bunch of new clips to the mix, and I'm hoping to vid this source even more, so...I'm not sure how to do the folder thing there. If I move clips to new folders then Time Machine will make multiple backups of the same clip, but I don't want to set it to not back stuff up, so...yeah. That's part of the issue though.

[sanguinity]

Isn't Time Machine pretty efficient in how it backs things up? I thought what Time Machine *didn't* do was make a straight-up duplicate of your drive, but instead kept the information that would allow it to recreate your drive, when asked.

[frayadjacent]

That's true, but AFAIK, if you rename or move a file then Time Machine will re-back it up, rather than, say, just creating a pointer to the new file. Which makes sense generally. So moving or renaming clips I've made for one vid to repurpose them for future vids would mean multiple backups of very large files. (Not only do I overclip, but I am also very generous in what I includ in a clip.)

[frayadjacent]

then again, maybe I'm wrong? I'd love to be wrong.

[sanguinity]

Renaming or moving a file creates a new backup.

However, Time Machine doesn't run out of space, either, strictly speaking: it will instead delete its very oldest backups, and does so in such a way that the files you've since deleted/renamed/moved are the first to go. So while you might have two copies of "cameorn mirror staples" in Time Machine for a while, if it starts running out of space, it'll get rid of its backup of the version/location of the file that you're no longer using.

So unless you're trying to save files by having Time Machine remember that you used to have them (which is a bad idea, because it is not the logic Time Machine is written to), that duplicated space will eventually clear itself out.

[frayadjacent]

does so in such a way that the files you've since deleted/renamed/moved are the first to go

I did not know that! Good to know. :D

[sanguinity]

I should clarify: files you renamed/moved/deleted recently hang on for a while; files you renamed/moved/deleted way back when go first. But they go long before files that have never been renamed/moved/deleted.

[frayadjacent]

Also good to know. Thanks!

[eruthros]

I give mine longer descriptive names with the episode number or movie title included either at the end or the beginning depending on how well I know the source. I mostly use abbreviations for character names for the main characters of the vid, but sometimes I describe people using the name of the actor instead, especially if it's a multi vid - I'm clipping for a multi vid right now and I know I'll forget the character names by the time I vid, so instead everyone is called "ewan mcgregor" and "scarlett johansson". Then I stick them in loosely organized subfolders, some of which will be named after a lyric in the song (if I know for sure what goes on some particular line and am specifically looking for clips for it) and some of which will be broader. Mostly I'm trying to make a system where I can find things fairly easily, but I can also use Premiere's search-your-clips in case I lose something or if I'm looking for inspiration.

So for example from the T'Challa vid I made:

In "drama shots":
"211 - T looking dramatic and barring entrance to Wakanda"
"111 - T framed by two stone plinth thingies"

In "boys brought to the yard:"
"201 - T catches Johnny Storm"
"120 - Thor picks T up"

In "no cowl!"
"107 - T running into temple pressing panther outfit to his face"
"124 - T looking at holographic globe raises eyebrows"

[frayadjacent]

Ooh, I really like the idea of naming folders after a certain lyric or moment in the song. The closest I've come is having folders like "Chorus1" (and I haven't made that vid yet; I've only clipped for it!).

Part of my problem right now is that I'm clipping for multiple vids, so folders don't necessarily make sense, unless they are categorized more by the content of the clip than how I might intend to use it.

But next time I make a one-off vid, I am totally going to try that.

[goodbyebird]

How you used to name your clips is basically what I'm doing now. But what I've been considering if I'm going to tackle larger sources, or sources I'm likely to vid more than once, is to tag the clips within iMovie and then I can search for whatever I damn want: hands, scenery, blood, motion, characters, fear, reflections, etc.

This is a great question though, I'll certainly be checking back in to see if some person drops an ingenious system into our laps ;)

(Basically I want to make tons and tons of SCC vids *g*)

[frayadjacent]

oh, this is a very exciting idea. Do you have to import clips into iMovie to tag them? I dimly recall that iMovie will basically duplicate the clip if you import it, which is horrible for my disk space!

[goodbyebird]

Yeah, I have to import them, but I store all my projects on an external so I don't bog down my computer. Also I think you only create one set of the imported clips - an "event" I think it's called - and then you can draw on that event for any one of your projects.

I suspect tagging will become highly relevant to me once I get down to rewatching BtVS. That is one scary amount of source!

[frayadjacent]

hum, sounds like it won't be worth it to me to do the iMovie import. tagging clips sounds awesome. actually, I keep hoping that tagging files will become a general feature of OS's, actually. it would be great for a lot of things beyond vidding. chaila's work-around seems good for now though!

[ghost_lingering]

I usually make a folder that is like ... [Lesbian Vid of Awesome Clips]. And then I have other folders within that that are [BtVS], [Xena], [Babylon 5], etc. And then within a specific canon's vid I have folders that are [Season 1, Season 2, etc].

So that takes some of the guesswork out of the actual file name. (And then when I import into the editing program I recreate my file system using bins or color coding.)

So then the file name typically goes like:

01_WillowTara_hug_Bhouse or something where 01 = episode number of that season, WillowTara are the people in the clip, hug is the event, and Bhouse is the location (Buffy's house).

For more complex clips it might be something like:

02_Willow_Tara_Giles_singing_BETRAYAL where each of the characters is in the clip, but perhaps not in the same space, singing is the action, and betrayal is Tara finding out about Willow's magical extraciriculars.

For clips that have nothing to do with people it might be something like:

03_CemetaryNight_coolgravestone_trees where location takes the place of character, and then the rest is just why I thought it was valuable for clipping.

I wrote a bit about clipping here: http://ghost-lingering.dreamwidth.org/155085.html when I was making my tightpresent vids, which was really the most nightmare organization process ever. All of the names were something like:

11_Derek_Weaver_Savannah_Connors_Ellison_Cameron_Riley_T3_shooting_factory_desert_computerparts_death_blood_flashbacks Which, uh, I would not recommend. For that I ended up with a color coding system.

[frayadjacent]

Makes sense -- I guess I just have to be OK with longish names -- though perhaps not quite as long as that last one!

Do you mind saying what editing program you use? I'm just starting with Premiere Pro (on a Mac) and would love to color code clips if possible.

[laurashapiro]

My clip names are unnecessarily verbose and (stupidly) often refer to things that are helpful contextually but not visually. I kick myself for it every time once I get to the editing stage, because it would be far more useful to label a clip "CharacterRunsLefttoRight" instead of "Character Demands Vengeance and prepares for battle" or whatever the fuck I think I'm doing at the time. (:

[frayadjacent]

Yeah, this is exactly my problem too! I want to name and organize my clips according to how I'd use them, not what they mean in the source. Tagging would be fantastic. Especially because I'm currently clipping for multiple vids. Or, rather, I'm clipping for a vid and hoping I use these clips and more for upcoming vid ideas as well.

[laurashapiro]

Well, when clipping for multiple vids, I would think source meaning would be relevant to help you remember the imagery itself as well as the context. I tend to clip way too contextually, though, and then I can't find the proper motiony clip when I need it.

[frayadjacent]

true. as for finding clips, this is where I'm most pleased with premiere as opposed to fcp. I love that I can preview clips just by hovering the mouse over them!

[chaila]

I way way waaaaaaaaaaaay overclip, because I basically clip instead of rewatching the source (whereas I get the sense that most vidders rewatch a source before vidding it, unless they've already seen it a bunch and know it well? I almost never do this). I've also generally clipped things with the idea of vidding it more than once. So my clip names are actually somewhat generic, something to jog my visual memory or point me where to look for visuals rather than a clear marker for a specific thing I want to put in the vid. It'll be something like "1.01 sarah john cam bank jump to future." That clip will be a fairly long scene that I'll scrub through again--which is like a second round of more specific clipping right in Vegas--for bits to actually use when I'm editing. It's probably accurate to say that my clipping is literally just breaking down a source into manageable video chunks, rather than specific clips of visuals I know I want to use. I'm weird though!

My process has gotten somewhat more refined over time though. Now, if I know there's a recurring theme or visual I'll try to draw out, or if I just notice something really cool or very specific that I know I'll want to think about including (and might forget), I'll put a more specific note in the clip name, like "hands" or "eye close up" or something. For example, I knew I wants lots of imagery of things falling and I knew Luther uses lots of doors, so I'd call a clip something like "1.01 luther chasing madsen, hand, eyes, things fall", or "1.02 luther through a door" or "1.02 alice hand on john's face" and I'll make sure I put "fall" or "hand" or "door" or whatever in all the relevant clip names, so I can do a keyword search of the clip folder later to find all the relevant clips with those things in them. Those things are literally just notes I tag onto the clip name to make it searchable later. It's all very messy. :)

[frayadjacent]

Well, in the absence of being able to tag clips while I make them -- which I would LOVE and sometimes wonder if I actually have the software to do, since my work computer came with the Adobe Suite and I have a number of programs I know nothing about -- that makes a lot of sense! It totally seems like it would work.

On a silly technicalish level, my mind is blown that you not only use spaces, but also punctuation in your file names! It would make things much easier if I started doing things like that. :D

[violace]

Back when I used hard clips, I made a separate folder for every episode and included a short description of the scene in the file names, such as "1x01 - buffy meets giles.avi". Or just a word, if there was something specific in the scene I knew I wanted to emphasise in the vid.

I got lazy though and ended up just looking at the thumbnails and going by that. I guess that works best with short clips/scenes.

It's basically the same now that I clip and organise everything directly in Vegas. You can actually tag clips in there which would be totally useful, but I haven't used that feature yet.

With movies or gaming footage, I haven't developed a good system yet. I just throw everything in the same folder and scroll through dozens or hundreds of thumbnails. It's the opposite of efficient. :D

[frayadjacent]

With the names I give my clips, I end up doing a lot of scrubbing through as well. I guess it's unavoidable. :)

Now that I've started working in Premiere Pro, I am going to try vidding straight from the VOBs at some point. Right now, though my source is in two different formats for different seasons, so clipping is necessary.

[thirdblindmouse]

I only clip inside the program, and naming clips inside my program is a completely useless feature, so instead I organize my clips spacially. For movies I usually divide it up by section or scene, and elevate clips of special interest. For a DS9 vid in the making I have all the episodes clipped and then the clips within them spread out over 7 rows that indicate different which areas of the character's life the scenes cover. Sometimes I wish I had the number of fields that named clips would allow me, but at the same time, I sorta like organizing things visually -- especially because my verbal brain and my visual brain seem to compete with each other when I'm vidding.

[frayadjacent]

oh that's interesting. so does organizing clips visually help you think in a more visual way while editing than you think it would if you had named them?

[thirdblindmouse]

A bit. I always seem to reach a point where I need to draw things out in 2D, and organizing them spacially takes care of that. On the other hand, I can't exactly do a database search on which clips have which kind of movement, characters, colors, etc. the way some people's organizational schemes allow them to do, and I'm jealous of that. I'd experiment with different schemes, but I haven't figured out a good method for clipping outside the program that isn't a pain in the neck and doesn't degrade clip quality, and I'm lazy.

[shati]

I type the first word that comes into my head (like "talking") with a 1 and then just keep incrementing the number for the rest of that episode/file/stretch of clipping. Even after they stop talking. Long after they stop talking. Eventually my attention wanders and I start naming the clips things like "pears1" when there are no pears in the source whatsoever. Later I wonder why I can't find the clips I need and conclude that the universe is a cold and uncaring place.

[shati]

And now that I've gone and read the other comments, I hate almost all of you. And I want a pear.

[frayadjacent]

hee. whatever works!

yum, pears...